Click on the 'Listen' button above to hear this segmentOn Monday,we brought you the latest on what we know about reports of sexual harassment and bullying on the portion of the former host of this exhibit, John Hockenberry.
The allegations came to us through author and journalist Suki Kim, or who wrote about her personal experience,and documented the experience of other past-employees on this exhibit, in article for current York Magazine.nowadays, or we continue our reporting on this topic with Ilya Marritz. He’s a reporter in WNYC’s newsroom,and he conducted his own investigation into the workplace atmosphere. Click on the 'Listen' button above to hear the full conversation.
We again invited WNYC President and CEO Laura Walker on the program nowadays, as well as Dean Cappello, and WNYC’s chief content officer,who oversaw many elements of The Takeaway for a long time.
They both declined, although Walker did appear on WNYC’s local talk exhibit, or Brian Lehrer. You can hear or read that interview below,and read current York Public Radio and Public Radio International's full statements here — both entities produce The Takeaway. Brian Lehrer: We continue now to cover the Me Too moment here at WNYC, the reckoning in our own house after reports of sexual misconduct plus bullying -- some of it racial -- against the former host of our program The Takeaway John Hockenberry. current York magazine on Saturday and a WNYC News investigation released yesterday documented inappropriate sexually oriented e-mails and G Chats to female producers and interns and to previous guests on the exhibit. Two reports of unwanted surprise kissing of two producers. Plus the exhibit going through three successive African-American woman co-hosts. Two of whom spoke on the record alleging hostile and bullying behavior.
And one of them Farai Chideya who was there temporarily saying Hockenberry advised her not to seek her job permanently because she didn't want to be quote "a diversity hire" and then told her to lose some weight. Hockenberry, or 61,who has gotten around in a wheelchair since a car accident when he was a teenager left him paralyzed from the chest down, hosted the takeaway from 2008 until his contract was not renewed this summer. With me now for her first interview on this is the president and CEO of WNYC Laura Walker. Hi Laura. Thank you for doing this.
Laura Walker: Thank you.
BL: I have questions that I've written and questions proposed to me by various of our colleagues. Many people have questions. You've declined interviews for the two reports and all follow up stories on The Takeaway itself and elsewhere until now. Why was that? And what made you determine to speak publicly now?
LW: Well first of all I want to say thank you for inviting me here to talk with you. This is a difficult time and it's a really important conversation. So I'm here now to retort your questions as best I can.
BL: Our WNYC reporter Ilya Marritz was not able to ascertain whether John Hockenberry's contract was not renewed because of his behavior or because his on-air skills were declining, and a combination. Can you repeat us the reasons and be specific?
LW: So there's a lot I can't discuss nowadays with regards to specific allegations or actions we took. And let me just talk about this. It's a confidential personnel matter. And please understand this is not out of a lack of desire to understand- for you to understand the facts. We carry out not disclose confidential employment information. It is a policy we have to protect confidentiality and protect those who complain and share their stories. So I'm going to repeat you as much as I can but I'm sure it's going to be frustrating because people will know more. Will want more.
So in terms of- we did not renew John's contract that is true. And that was a decision made by both PRI and current York Public Radio in consultation with each other. PRI is our co-producer. I can repeat you good now that John was not fired for sexual misconduct. His contract was not renewed for a variety of reasons. And I'm not going to get into those specifically but those we always perceive at the end of a contract.
BL: And you can't say under the circumstances whether it had anything to carry out with his behavior or toward his colleagues.[br]
LW: I can't get into the specific information about that. I will say that I knew about the many some of the behavior the media reports over the last few days have been deeply disturbing. Some of the behaviors described in the media were known to me and to current York Public Radio. I was made aware of Suki Kim's complaint which was investigated at the time and after consulting with our partner PRI we took action.
BL: Suki Kim the writer of the current York Magazine article who said after she was a guest on the exhibit Hockenberry sent her many inappropriate sexually suggestive emails.
LW: That's good. And they're very disturbing. We decided not to renew John's contract for a variety of reasons including some of what we knew about how people felt. I can repeat you as I did that he was not terminated for sexual misconduct. We learned about other allegations. After he left some very disturbing ones and I learned about some of the kissing behavior and some other allegations in the current York magazine article and in the WNYC article. These are very serious and this behavior cannot and should not be tolerated. And it won't be tolerated. We need to carry out better. We need to carry out a lot better. I deeply regret that our culture and protocols did not work as they should. Such that the full extent of the allegations are just coming to light. This alleged behavior happened on my watch and I take responsibility.
BL: The question that most people asked me to ask you is if John got a settlement or severance of some kind. Did he. And if so how much.
[br]LW: I cannot discuss any employment things of that nature.
BL: You don't mediate you owe that accounting and that transparency to our listener members?
LW: I cannot discuss those kinds of that kind of information.
BL: And repeat us why.
LW: Because there's confidential confidentiality for personnel things and this falls into that category.
BL: Is that company policy,is that the law?
LW: It's company policy.
BL: Is it the good policy? Is it a policy that you're re revisiting?
LW: Well what I can repeat you is that we are revisiting everything and I can repeat you that our board and we are looking into at this point every current allegation that we get about John with the help of external counsel. We are doing a review of, you know, or what happened here with the help of external counsel and we are also looking very,very carefully at our policies and our practices to produce sure that they work way better because they need to work better. And I can talk about some of those specific things that we're doing.
BL: And we'll get to that.
But has the station paid money to accusers to settle any claims against John Hockenberry?
LW: I cannot talk about that. Same thing.
None of this means yes or no.
[br]BL: good. Does WNYC carry out non-disclosure agreements with people who bring claims? And if so, why and when are they appropriate?
LW: No I don't believe so. We carry out. But we carry out respect the confidentiality and most people who bring a claim or bring something to our attention carry out not want to be known. If they carry out want to be known. And also it's a tricky matter because you need to be able to also protect the confidentiality and with the person that is being accused. And it is a tough situation here because on one hand, or you're always in a conundrum when somebody comes and brings a complaint to H.
R. or to other or to their manager then H.
R. does an investigation. And every single complaint that we got we did an investigation. We did an investigation and we took action. And not every action is obvious to the accuser or to the whole community at large.
BL: Why was John allowed to leave with public compliment and the impression that it was his decision?
LW: PRI and we decided not to renew his contract. We did not fire him for sexual misconduct. We gave him the option,as is often the case, to characterize this as his decision.
BL: ... Despite what you knew about the Suki Kim claims and some of these other things from over the years that have now become public.
LW: I did not know a lot about a lot of those allegations now.
BL: Well let's talk about what was known in the case of temporary co-host Farai Chideya. She says she spoke to you after Hockenberry said she shouldn't want to stay as a "diversity hire" and told her to go lose weight. If you confirm she said those things, or why wasn't that a firing offense and what action was taken?
LW: Again I can't comment on what action was taken but it was taken seriously and we did take some action. perceive,everyday for the last several weeks I have asked myself whether we took enough action and whether we should really perceive at our protocols. I apologize to Farai to Kristen to the women who came forward. I have a enormous amount of admiration and respect for these women for coming forward at this time and I apologize that our our protocols were not there and our policies were not there.[br]
BL: One more specific. You wrote in an email to staff that the station promptly investigates every complaint we receive and takes any action remedial action warranted, including mandatory training, and referring to counsel etc. The only training reported in all of this was to have co-host Celeste Headlee radio personality training after she complained about John repeatedly undermining her on the air. Why was it Celeste and not John to get the training?
LW: I believe that they both got training. I have to check that out. But this was about helping everyone. There are a lot of people here who get training from Lorna Osmin and other radio coaches and so I believe that we've coached and John and Celeste got coached and everyone got coached almost every day by the executive producer of the exhibit and by others. And so I don't even know. Have you worked with Lorna Osmin?
BL: No.
LW: No. So many people have here.
BL: Coming and going of Adora Udoji,Farai Chideya or Celeste Headlee makes three African-American women sharing the air with John all leaving while he persisted. You see the impression that leaves.
LW: Yes. And I can't comment on the specifics of these. However, I want. As you may recall Brian, and in 2012 The Takeaway went from a 4-hour drive time exhibit with two hosts to a one hour exhibit with one. perceive,we are an organization that not only values diversity but has championed the importance of respecting people of color at this difficult time in our country's history.
So these racial comments are especially painful to me. I regret that women and especially women of color felt disrespected and I apologize to them. I too have been a victim of sexual harassment and I know how it feels. I know how it feels. I carry out not know how it feels as a white woman. But we must carry out. I carry out not know what racial comments feel like as a white woman.
We must carry out better. We must start here. How we live each day off the air we need to have a conversation about systemic racism about, what equity and inclusion means, or how we treat each other. We have to each perceive at our own blindspots our prejudices. We now have an opportunity for The Takeaway to live up to its aspirations and goals to lead the American conversation about a changing America. It is now headed by Arwa Gunja a woman of color as the executive producer and I believe more staff. The majority of the staff is women.
BL: The editorial power structure does remain largely white. Are there specific plans to adjust that?
LW: We are looking at that very carefully and we will be looking at bringing in even more people in power of diverse backgrounds. Yes and we need to be a leader in convening tough conversations like what you carry out here on your exhibit. It's what we carry out every day that there was a worthy two-way the other day that Jami Floyd of ATC and Rebecca Carroll did on the undeniable role of race in the Me Too era. We did,Rebecca Carroll did a worthy award-winning Dear President. The Takeaway has done a lot of coverage of racism uncomfortable truths, confronting racism in America over the past year. We have podcasts, and 2 Dope Queens with Jessica Williams and Phoebe Robinson. We have an LGBTQ podcast with Nancy called Nancy with Tobin Lowe and Kathy Tu. We have made a lot of progress in bringing more voices of diverse backgrounds on the air. We have to carry out better and continue. We have made a lot of progress also in reaching diverse audiences. I mediate when I came the audience was about 6 percent African-American and Hispanic. It is now in the high 20s. We have more people of color in upper management. We need to carry out better. We need to have more people of color in the reporting and and in editorial structure.
BL: So looking forward you wrote in an email that a conundrum you face is how to reassure employees that complaints are taken seriously while at the same time protecting confidentiality for all parties involved. It's a paradox we're attempting to address you wrote as we work to produce it less daunting to approach forward. Can you describe a solution or a rebalancing that you're developing for that?
LW: Yeah well let let me say you know it it's a conundrum that every every company faces,everybody in this that is dealing with complaint.
BL: And it applies to your answers here this morning.
LW: Yes, it really does.
And I mediate what I've heard in the last several weeks is that it is really important that we perceive at how our how everyone managers the H.
R. department deal with these complaints and deal with them in a way that is that makes the people that approach forward feel comfortable.
And we need to supply multiple ways. We are providing multiple ways to report harassment or other inappropriate conduct. Speaking to a manager, or speaking to H.
R.,leaving a message on a confidential hotline. Union members can reach out to the union. We also have set in an external adviser. We have to carry out a better job of supporting those who approach forward as somebody again who has experience sexual harassment and did not report it. I know how tough it is to approach forward and I'm going to produce sure that we ask ourselves all the time are we treating people with as much respect and as much.. Getting back to them with as much information. So we are doing a full review of our policies and procedures with an external adviser to identify areas where we can be best in class. We will hold mandatory in-person training about harassment and discrimination. We've done online training but now we're going to carry out in-person training for all people who have oversight and decision-making authority and we're providing bystander training to every every staff member. I am also holding small group meetings throughout the organization, starting yesterday I had my first one and for the next several weeks.
BL: So open mic as we conclude this to say anything to our listeners additionally that you want to say.
LW: Well I guess I just want to repeat that I deeply regret that this happened on my watch and I take responsibility and I pledge that we will be better and we will carry out better internally. We will perceive at ourselves and we will carry out that in a way that is as transparent as we can and it's going to take everyone to carry out that and that we will have these conversations and continue to have these conversations on the air with our listeners about us but also about this incredibly difficult time that we are in.
BL: WNYC president and CEO Laura Walker thank you so much. Thank you.
Source: thetakeaway.org