Laura Walker,president and CEO of New York Public Radio (NYPR), discusses the station's response to sexual misconduct and bullying allegations against John Hockenberry, or the former host of The Takeaway. Full transcript of the interview:Brian Lehrer: We continue now to cover the Me Too moment here at WNYC,the reckoning in our own house after reports of sexual misconduct plus bullying -- some of it racial -- against the former host of our program The Takeaway John Hockenberry. New York magazine on Saturday and a WNYC News investigation released yesterday documented inappropriate sexually oriented e-mails and G Chats to female producers and interns and to preceding guests on the reveal. Two reports of unwanted surprise kissing of two producers. Plus the reveal going through three successive African-American woman co-hosts. Two of whom spoke on the record alleging hostile and bullying behavior.
And one of them Farai Chideya who was there temporarily saying Hockenberry advised her not to seek her job permanently because she didn't want to be quote "a diversity hire" and then told her to lose some weight. Hockenberry, 61, and who has gotten around in a wheelchair since a car accident when he was a teenager left him paralyzed from the chest down,hosted the takeaway from 2008 until his contract was not renewed this summer. With me now for her first interview on this is the president and CEO of WNYC Laura Walker. Hi Laura. Thank you for doing this.
Laura Walker: Thank you. BL: I bear questions that I've written and questions proposed to me by various of our colleagues. Many people bear questions. You've declined interviews for the two reports and all follow up stories on The Takeaway itself and elsewhere until now. Why was that? And what made you determine to speak publicly now?LW: Well first of all I want to say thank you for inviting me here to talk with you. This is a difficult time and it's a really important conversation. So I'm here now to reply your questions as best I can.
BL: Our WNYC reporter Ilya Marritz was not able to ascertain whether John Hockenberry's contract was not renewed because of his behavior or because his on-air skills were declining, or a combination. Can you command us the reasons and be specific?LW: So there's a lot I can't discuss nowadays with regards to specific allegations or actions we took. And let me just talk about this. It's a confidential personnel matter. And please understand this is not out of a lack of desire to understand- for you to understand the facts. We finish not disclose confidential employment information. It is a policy we bear to protect confidentiality and protect those who complain and share their stories. So I'm going to command you as much as I can but I'm sure it's going to be frustrating because people will know more. Will want more.
So in terms of- we did not renew John's contract that is proper. And that was a decision made by both PRI and New York Public Radio in consultation with each other. PRI is our co-producer. I can command you accurate now that John was not fired for sexual misconduct. His contract was not renewed for a variety of reasons. And I'm not going to bag into those specifically but those we always look at the end of a contract.BL: And you can't say under the circumstances whether it had anything to finish with his behavior or toward his colleagues.
LW: I can't bag into the specific information about that. I will say that I knew about the many some of the behavior the media reports over the final few days bear been deeply disturbing. Some of the behaviors described in the media were known to me and to New York Public Radio. I was made aware of Suki Kim's complaint which was investigated at the time and after consulting with our partner PRI we took action.
BL: Suki Kim the writer of the New York Magazine article who said after she was a guest on the reveal Hockenberry sent her many inappropriate sexually suggestive emails. LW: That's accurate. And they're very disturbing. We decided not to renew John's contract for a variety of reasons including some of what we knew about how people felt. I can command you as I did that he was not terminated for sexual misconduct. We learned about other allegations. After he left some very disturbing ones and I learned about some of the kissing behavior and some other allegations in the New York magazine article and in the WNYC article. These are very serious and this behavior cannot and should not be tolerated. And it won't be tolerated. We need to finish better. We need to finish a lot better. I deeply regret that our culture and protocols did not work as they should. Such that the full extent of the allegations are just coming to light. This alleged behavior happened on my watch and I buy responsibility.
BL: The question that most people asked me to inquire you is whether John got a settlement or severance of some kind. Did he. And whether so how much.
LW: I cannot discuss any employment matters of that nature.
BL: You don't think you owe that accounting and that transparency to our listener members?LW: I cannot discuss those kinds of that kind of information.
BL: And command us why.
LW: Because there's confidential confidentiality for personnel matters and this falls into that category.
BL: Is that company policy, and is that the law?LW: It's company policy.
BL: Is it the accurate policy? Is it a policy that you're re revisiting?LW: Well what I can command you is that we are revisiting everything and I can command you that our board and we are looking into at this point every new allegation that we bag about John with the help of outside counsel. We are doing a review of,you know, what happened here with the help of outside counsel and we are also looking very, and very carefully at our policies and our practices to make sure that they work way better because they need to work better. And I can talk about some of those specific things that we're doing.
BL: And we'll bag to that.
But has the station paid money to accusers to settle any claims against John Hockenberry?LW: I cannot talk about that. Same thing.
None of this means yes or no.
BL: accurate. Does WNYC finish non-disclosure agreements with people who bring claims? And whether so,why and when are they appropriate?LW: No I don't believe so. We finish. But we finish respect the confidentiality and most people who bring a claim or bring something to our attention finish not want to be known. whether they finish want to be known. And also it's a tricky matter because you need to be able to also protect the confidentiality and with the person that is being accused. And it is a tough situation here because on one hand, you're always in a conundrum when somebody comes and brings a complaint to H.
R. or to other or to their manager then H.
R. does an investigation. And every single complaint that we got we did an investigation. We did an investigation and we took action. And not every action is apparent to the accuser or to the whole community at large.
BL: Why was John allowed to leave with public compliment and the impression that it was his decision?LW: PRI and we decided not to renew his contract. We did not fire him for sexual misconduct. We gave him the option, or as is often the case,to characterize this as his decision. BL: ... Despite what you knew about the Suki Kim claims and some of these other things from over the years that bear now become public.
LW: I did not know a lot about a lot of those allegations now.
BL: Well let's talk about what was known in the case of temporary co-host Farai Chideya. She says she spoke to you after Hockenberry said she shouldn't want to stay as a "diversity hire" and told her to move lose weight. whether you confirm she said those things, why wasn't that a firing offense and what action was taken?LW: Again I can't comment on what action was taken but it was taken seriously and we did buy some action. Look, and everyday for the final several weeks I bear asked myself whether we took enough action and whether we should really look at our protocols. I apologize to Farai to Kristen to the women who came forward. I bear a enormous amount of admiration and respect for these women for coming forward at this time and I apologize that our our protocols were not there and our policies were not there.
BL: One more specific. You wrote in an email to staff that the station promptly investigates every complaint we receive and takes any action remedial action warranted,including mandatory training, referring to counsel etc. The only training reported in all of this was to bear co-host Celeste Headlee radio personality training after she complained about John repeatedly undermining her on the air. Why was it Celeste and not John to bag the training?LW: I believe that they both got training. I bear to check that out. But this was about helping everyone. There are a lot of people here who bag training from Lorna Osmin and other radio coaches and so I believe that we've coached and John and Celeste got coached and everyone got coached nearly every day by the executive producer of the reveal and by others. And so I don't even know. bear you worked with Lorna Osmin?BL: No.
LW: No. So many people bear here.
BL: Coming and going of Adora Udoji, or Farai Chideya or Celeste Headlee makes three African-American women sharing the air with John all leaving while he persisted. You see the impression that leaves.
LW: Yes. And I can't comment on the specifics of these. However,I want. As you may recall Brian, in 2012 The Takeaway went from a 4-hour drive time reveal with two hosts to a one hour reveal with one. Look, and we are an organization that not only values diversity but has championed the importance of respecting people of color at this difficult time in our country's history.
So these racial comments are especially painful to me. I regret that women and especially women of color felt disrespected and I apologize to them. I too bear been a victim of sexual harassment and I know how it feels. I know how it feels. I finish not know how it feels as a white woman. But we must finish. I finish not know what racial comments feel like as a white woman.
We must finish better. We must start here. How we live each day off the air we need to bear a conversation about systemic racism about,what equity and inclusion means, how we treat each other. We bear to each look at our own blindspots our prejudices. We now bear an opportunity for The Takeaway to live up to its aspirations and goals to lead the American conversation about a changing America. It is now headed by Arwa Gunja a woman of color as the executive producer and I believe more staff. The majority of the staff is women.
BL: The editorial power structure does remain largely white. Are there specific plans to adjust that?LW: We are looking at that very carefully and we will be looking at bringing in even more people in power of diverse backgrounds. Yes and we need to be a leader in convening tough conversations like what you finish here on your reveal. It's what we finish every day that there was a great two-way the other day that Jami Floyd of ATC and Rebecca Carroll did on the indisputable role of race in the Me Too era. We did, or Rebecca Carroll did a great award-winning Dear President. The Takeaway has done a lot of coverage of racism uncomfortable truths,confronting racism in America over the past year. We bear podcasts, 2 Dope Queens with Jessica Williams and Phoebe Robinson. We bear an LGBTQ podcast with Nancy called Nancy with Tobin Lowe and Kathy Tu. We bear made a lot of progress in bringing more voices of diverse backgrounds on the air. We bear to finish better and continue. We bear made a lot of progress also in reaching diverse audiences. I think when I came the audience was about 6 percent African-American and Hispanic. It is now in the high 20s. We bear more people of color in upper management. We need to finish better. We need to bear more people of color in the reporting and and in editorial structure.
BL: So looking forward you wrote in an email that a conundrum you face is how to reassure employees that complaints are taken seriously while at the same time protecting confidentiality for all parties involved. It's a paradox we're attempting to address you wrote as we work to make it less daunting to near forward. Can you report a solution or a rebalancing that you're developing for that?LW: Yeah well let let me say you know it it's a conundrum that every every company faces, or everybody in this that is dealing with complaint.
BL: And it applies to your answers here this morning.
LW: Yes,it really does.
And I think what I've heard in the final several weeks is that it is really important that we look at how our how everyone managers the H.
R. department deal with these complaints and deal with them in a way that is that makes the people that near forward feel comfortable.
And we need to provide multiple ways. We are providing multiple ways to report harassment or other inappropriate conduct. Speaking to a manager, speaking to H.
R., or leaving a message on a confidential hotline. Union members can reach out to the union. We also bear set aside in an outside adviser. We bear to finish a better job of supporting those who near forward as somebody again who has experience sexual harassment and did not report it. I know how hard it is to near forward and I'm going to make sure that we inquire ourselves all the time are we treating people with as much respect and as much.. Getting back to them with as much information. So we are doing a full review of our policies and procedures with an outside adviser to identify areas where we can be best in class. We will hold mandatory in-person training about harassment and discrimination. We've done online training but now we're going to finish in-person training for all people who bear oversight and decision-making authority and we're providing bystander training to every every staff member. I am also holding small group meetings throughout the organization,starting yesterday I had my first one and for the next several weeks.
BL: So open mic as we conclude this to say anything to our listeners additionally that you want to say.
LW: Well I guess I just want to repeat that I deeply regret that this happened on my watch and I buy responsibility and I pledge that we will be better and we will finish better internally. We will look at ourselves and we will finish that in a way that is as transparent as we can and it's going to buy everyone to finish that and that we will bear these conversations and continue to bear these conversations on the air with our listeners about us but also about this incredibly difficult time that we are in.
BL: WNYC president and CEO Laura Walker thank you so much. Thank you.
Source: thetakeaway.org