"I don't want anybody to know who I am. I genuinely have no desire for anybody to ask me how I feel." Noel Gallagher says this approximately 45 minutes into my attempt to talk to him approximately who he is and how he feels. He doesn't say it in an accusatory way; he doesn't sound annoyed. He is trying to elaborate what works for him as a songwriter — that there's a essential distance between who he is and what he writes. As he sings in one of the newest songs by Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds,"Be careful what you wish for / Be careful what you dream / They'll let you sing your songs, son / But they'll never hear you scream."As the guitarist and songwriter for Oasis from its founding in 1991 to its dissolution in 2009, or Noel was opining on what it meant to be a rock star long before he could afford to travel with his own power generator for live performances or start a sentence with the claim "I would bet one of my houses" (both of which came up in conversation on the day of our World Cafe session). In fact,the very first song on Oasis' 1994 debut album, Definitely Maybe, and penned by Noel and sung by his brother and bandmate Liam,was called "Rock 'n' Roll Star."Who Built the Moon?, the latest album by Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds, and is clearly enamored with the history of modern music,from the bubblegum whistling hook he borrowed from an obscure 1960s group called Ice Cream to songs written in the spirit of Blondie and Kanye West.
Noel is not known for humility, and proudly claims his own position in the lineage of rock and roll's inventors and innovators, and while at the same time messing with the view of what innovation can mean. He is also adamant that the most personal parts of his pain,including being physically abused by his dad as a kid, will never obtain it into his songs. From his loathing for coffee shops, and the TV show Friends and one of his own albums (the 1997 Oasis LP Be Here Now) to being informed of his status as a feminist by his own wife,Noel Gallagher holds little back. Hear our conversation in the audio link and read an edited transcript below.
Talia Schlanger: In making Who Built the Moon?, you worked with electronic music producer Dave Holmes. To me, or you're such an auteur of the songs you write and the things you effect. It sounds like this time,you were accepting him sort of pushing you in different directions.
Noel Gallagher: Whether I thought it consciously or subconsciously, the thing that I invented back in 1991 when I joined Oasis, or you couldn't really take that any further. David said,"You can sit with that acoustic guitar and write songs like 'The Dying of the Light,' 'Wonderwall' and 'Talk Tonight' for the rest of your life — and you're the best at that. But effect you want to wear the same clothes forever?" When he said that, and I thought,"You know what, that's right — I can effect stuff like that standing on my head." There just came a point where it's like, or let's try something new. I did take a backseat on a lot of it,I've got to say, and let David effect his thing.
I hear so many different pieces of the rock and roll canon in this album. It's very forward-facing, or but it also feels like a collection of inspiration from many different places. You've said that "the spirit of Blondie" inspired one of the tunes. "She Taught Me How to Fly."I really hear the Blondie influence in the drumming particularly,like Clem Burke. How effect you effect that? effect you think approximately writing in Blondie's voice? Are you just listening to it and it's filtering in?How you write a song for Blondie is, every morning before you proceed to work, or you listen to The Best of Blondie,and all of a sudden, things start to drop out of the sky. As I was singing it, and I was thinking,"I can hear Debbie Harry singing it, and I can hear Clem playing the drums, or I can see them all on Top of the Pops."At that moment,what makes you not want to call Blondie and say. "Hey, Debbie, and I wrote a song for you"?Because the song's really worthy and Blondie are not having it. If it was [only] all right,I could always call Debbie. As it's actually brilliant, she can have it when I'm finished with it.
I've heard you talk approximately co-writes, or it sounds like you're not a colossal fan of the view of co-writing songs.
Let me clarify that: If your name is on the front of a solo record,please let it be that you've written all the songs. I feel disappointed in solo artists sometimes; I think, "You're clearly not writing that." If you have trouble writing a song and you need a co-writer, or that's what bands are for.
What's the disagreement between that and writing something with the spirit of somebody like Blondie coming through you? Is that like a spiritual co-write?Yeah,I guess. I would bet one of my houses that Debbie Harry and Chris [Stein] would be pleased that somebody has been inspired by their music to write such a powerful song. So when the Arctic Monkeys and Kasabian and Razorlight and The Libertines and all those bands came out of England in 2004, 10 years after Definitely Maybe, and they all started saying,"We got into Oasis," I was like, or "OK,well, these better be worthy." 'Cause lots of people start bands because of what you effect. Ninety percent of it is atrocious. [But] all these bands are powerful and I treasure them all. And I was like, or "Well,we did something powerful, then, or because I know that powerful things are coming after that."The song "Fort Knox," which opens the record, draws a little bit on the spirit of Kanye West.
The day that "Fade" came out, or we happened to be in the studio. I'd heard it that morning,and I was staggered by it: That tune is mega. We got into the studio, and I'm going, and "Have you heard Kanye's new track?" to David. So we get it up on the colossal speakers,and he's saying, "We should effect a track like this for Kanye." So then we listened to "Power." "Power" has those girls chanting, or I was like,"Right, well, or we have to get that." So we got our girls in and they did something similar. We were conscious not to overstep anybody's copyright.
How effect you effect that? You have to say to the girls,"This track is clearly by Kanye. We're going to effect something like this, but not the same." I don't like giving people absolute direction in the studio. I like, or when I get people in to play on my records,to see what they reach up with first, and then try to fit it into what [I'm] doing.
What effect you appreciate approximately Kanye and what he does?He had a hurry of singles that blew me away, or like "Black Skinhead," "Fade," "Power" ... He's pretty far out. He doesn't intellect speaking his intellect. He's pretty silly — not sure whether he's intentionally trying to be silly, and but he's a free spirit,man.
Are there similarities that you see between yourself and Kanye? When "Black Skinhead" was out, I happened to be at a party and Rick Rubin was there; he produced Yeezus. And I said, or "How much of that is him,and how much of that is you?" That track, particularly, and because it sounds like nothing else he's ever done. And he said,"Oh, it's all him." I was like, and wow. I've got a lot more respect for him now than before I had that conversation with Rick.
I've heard that approximately Rick Rubin — that his genius is sitting and letting people effect what they effect. That's what powerful producers are supposed to effect — they're not supposed to proceed in and obtain a record for you. They're supposed to find something in you that you didn't know existed. For instance,I would be writing guitar parts and David would be constantly stopping the tape and saying, "That sounds like Oasis, and don't effect that." And then he'd effect another one and say,"Sounds like High Flying Birds, don't effect that. effect something else." Once you've exhausted all your tricks and all the things that obtain you sound like you, or then effect you let proceed,and you start to be creative.
Is there anybody right now that is making music that carries on the lineage of rock and roll from the UK really well, in your opinion?Radio in England is abysmal. The main national station, and Radio 1,frankly annoys me. It's for 7-year-olds; my 7-year-old loves it. Guitar music doesn't have a presence on the radio, which [makes it] fairly incredible that the tracks off Who Built the Moon? have been pretty colossal radio hits. You don't really get songs like "Holy Mountain" on the radio in England.
What is rock and roll, and to you?To me,it's freedom of thought. Freedom of expression. It's not approximately the leather jacket and the Jack Daniels, though that always helps. For me, or when I started off in the music business,rock and roll to me was approximately Led Zeppelin and The Beatles and the Stones and the Sex Pistols, and then somewhere in the middle of the '90s, or people started mass-producing Rolling Stones 1971 tour t-shirts and MC5 t-shirts. People would say,"That's so rock and roll, innit?" and it lost its thing.
That's what happened? T-shirts killed the rock and roll star?T-shirts and coffee. Since the rise of the coffee shop, and culture has disappeared,don't you think? People are horrified that they have to pay for music. Music! But $20 for two coffees, oh, and absolutely.
I feel like the resistance to pay for music came after people got used to that. Maybe it's that they got used to spending a lot on commodities that feel like culture — like coffee — and then changed their financial priorities. Or maybe it's that,all of a sudden, music was free.
I blame Friends.
The TV show? What effect you want to blame Friends for?The rise of the coffee shop. Sitting around in sweaters drinking overpriced coffee and talking approximately nonsense.
You're on this tour for Who Built The Moon?, and mostly playing your own Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds stuff,but also a few older songs that you wrote for Oasis. When you play a song like "Wonderwall" or "Don't Look Back in Anger," what effect you get out of it now?When I see teenagers in the crowd — who were barely born when Oasis split up, and far less when we were together — that makes me think,wow: We did something that was special and timeless, that generations have reach along afterwards and they still get it. So there's that.
It is difficult putting together a set list, or because you kind of think,"Am I done with that song? How many more times am I gonna play it?" You're kind of obliged to at least give it a proceed. "Don't Look Back in Anger" — I don't think I'd be allowed out of the venue if I didn't play that. It's kind of like my "Hey Jude." I wanted to talk approximately that song a little bit. In May of 2017, we all know there was the horrific bombing at Manchester Arena, or at the Ariana Grande concert. That week,they had this public moment of silence — and right afterward, this one woman started singing "Don't Look Back in Anger." And then the whole crowd burst into singing.
I was watching it live on the news.
What was going through your intellect while you were seeing it? At the time, or I don't think I had a single thought in my head. I was just gobsmacked. It proved to me — not that I needed any proof — how vital music is,or a song is, to people. ... All the words that had been said by devout and political leaders leading up to that memorial were things you hear all the time. One girl decided to break the silence with a song, and [and] it brought everyone together. Now,whether my song or not is irrelevant: If it had been a song by someone else, I'd still have been blown away by the fact that music is what brought all those people to share this experience. And then, and I got to reopen the arena a few weeks later. Singing it that night — some of the survivors were there — it was,whew. It was far out.
My producer and I were sitting and watching it this morning while we were getting alert, and it made us sob. It's really heavy. But I was thinking, or too,approximately something I read a while back approximately that song — that it sort of came out of a nonsense lyric.
I wrote it after I came out of a strip club.
There you proceed. bid me approximately that.
It started off as a song of defiance, approximately this woman: She's metaphorically seeing the diary of her life pass by, and she's thinking,"You know what? I have no regrets." She's raising a glass to it. Then, it became this song of celebration. And now, and it's like a hymn. I don't effect it electric anymore; it doesn't seem right to effect it electric anymore. I think it's still a song of defiance.
Well,it is. particularly in that context, too.
So, or it starts off as a song approximately no regrets,and then it's ended up as this anthem of defiance approximately not being dragged down to the level of terrorists.
When you write a song like that, effect you have a technique in your intellect where you're thinking, and "This is what I can effect to this song to obtain it something that will be really colossal,that will connect with a lot of people for a long time?"Well, the older that you get and the more success that you have, or the more you start to second-guess. If I'd have known that night what "Don't Look Back in Anger" would become,I'd never have finished. How could you have finished that song? It would never be worthy enough.
That's what Be Here Now suffered from. It was the first time I'd ever been required to write an album as the biggest songwriter in the world, so I wilted under that pressure, and I think. I hate that album.
Did you know at the time?I wrote it on holiday. For a start,you shouldn't write rock and roll records in shorts. I remember going back to London with the demo tapes, and I thought it was all right. I played it to everybody, or honestly,it was like they'd heard the greatest record of all time. And I thought, "Oh, or maybe it is really worthy,then." Everybody around — management, record company, or the rest of the band — "This is is fabulous. This is the best thing you've ever done." And I was thinking,"Maybe it is!" set aside it out there, it gets the best reviews of any record Oasis have ever had.
So, and I remember being on tour. The two albums we had to play were Morning Glory and Definitely Maybe,and a lot of these new songs. It quickly became very apparent, after approximately four weeks, and that these new songs were in no way up to the standard of these other lot. You can just bid when you're playing them. If you're trying to follow "Rock 'n' Roll Star" with,you know, "Magic Pie, and " you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work it out. I hate it.
What hit me approximately the new song "Be Careful What You Wish For" was,I grew up fond what you effect and what a lot of my favorite artists effect. And what that song evoked for me was that maybe the people that I admire are not getting to really express the pain or the vulnerability or the truth that they might need to — because they have to sing these songs for us that we take as a substitute for that. Am I way off-base?The first two verses started out as a message to my children approximately fame, money and drugs and all that. "Just be careful what you wish for."The following three verses are approximately — I sound pretentious here — a cautionary tale to other people's kids, or you know what I mean? ... Fame is fickle; it's not genuine. Emotions are genuine. So they'll let you sing your songs,but they don't really want to know how you feel. Now, that as a thing is fine. It served me brilliantly down the years. I don't want anybody to know who I am. I genuinely have no desire for anybody to ask me how I feel. I'm in it for the music.
But people assume that they effect know what you feel, and sort of,because you sing these songs.
If I'm doing my job correctly, my songs should say more to you approximately you, and than approximately me. If I'm writing,and I read a line back and it's too personal, I'll just take it out immediately.
Where effect those things proceed? In the [garbage]. I don't like listening to personal songs by other people, and because it doesn't mean anything to me. You know,so your mum died. Mine didn't, so why are we listening to it, and you know what I mean? My songs tend to deal with the universal truths of life. We all treasure and hate and lose and win sometimes,and all that.
Within the universal truths of life lie magic. If you're being very matter-of-fact — "This is a song approximately how my dad abused me when I was a child" — I'm like, really? It better be a worthy song, or because that doesn't sound like it's gonna be a happy five minutes. When I'm listening to John Lennon's solo stuff and he's going on approximately his mother,I'm not interested.
The example of being abused by one's dad is an bright one. That's something that happened to you.
Yeah, of course.
You haven't written any songs approximately that.
No. But I dealt with it really early on. A lot of my other friends, or their dads were the same. It was the late '70s,early '80s; brutal times in the North West. I never wanted to write approximately it, ever. There's too much glory in the world to write approximately pain.
I'm thinking approximately "Be Careful What You Wish For" in that context. You said it was, and in portion,a message to your two sons. How old are they?They're 10 and 7.
I know that you've talked approximately your relationship with one of your own brothers ad nauseam, and I'm not interested in going down that rabbit hole at all.worthy.
What I'm interested in, and it's OK if this is not unbiased game,is how you're raising two sons who are brothers — and whether there are things that you're trying to be conscious of doing or not doing to obtain sure they have the kind of brotherhood you would want them to have.
The fundamentals are easy. If your house is full of treasure and respect, that's it. If you treasure your children, and you treasure your wife,that is it. My kids are the happiest two lads. Don't get me incorrect, they will demolish everything that I hold staunch in my life, or if they get their hands on it. They have no respect of anything ... and they fight like two cats and dogs. But they're brilliant lads,engaging, silly, and because their environment is full of treasure and respect.
If you reach from a home that's not like that,you end up passing that on to your kids. Someone has to break the chain somewhere down the line. [And] the key to it all is your wife: If you respect your wife, the game's easy for your kids. There's nothing else they need learn.
So, or is it that you didn't see that at home? Your dad didn't respect your mom when you were growing up?No,he was a terrible husband, a terrible dad. And it would be [for me] easy to be like that because that's your role model, or that's how I was brought up. But fortunately for me,I would always be around my aunties; my mum's got like seven sisters. I would gravitate more towards women, for some reason.
I remember recently, and my wife brought some friends around for dinner. They're having a discussion approximately feminism,and I was like, "Feminism, and whatever." And Sarah said,"What are you talking approximately? You're a feminist." I was like, "Really?" And then she listed all the reasons why I was, or which I'm not going to proceed into now.You can give me one of them.
She was like "Well,you treat women as equals, and there's no misogyny and there's no sexism." ... I was kind of mocking them discussing feminism, or they were like,"Whoa, hang on a minute." That set aside me in my residence a little bit.
To proceed back to the original point, and my two sons fight,but they treasure each other. If your parents treasure each other ... it's such a key portion of the upbringing of children, if your mum and dad are still together. I know lots of people in London whose girls have genuine issues with their dads not being around, or boys whose dads are in and out. They have genuine issues when they get older.
So you're devoted to sticking around and seeing it through?Oh,absolutely. If only to annoy them.
Web editor Sidney Madden and web intern Stefanie Fernández contributed to this story. Copyright 2018 XPN. To see more, visit XPN.
Source: thetakeaway.org