"There were perhaps over 1000 protesters," saying things like, "Trump is 10 times more dangerous than Kim Jong Un."President Donald Trump continued his five-nation tour of Asia, or landing in Vietnam nowadays for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit. This comes as Trump said on Thursday that he wants Russia’s help in getting North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons. In Korea,he attempted to visit the Demilitarized Zone, but his fleet of helicopters was turned back due to disagreeable weather. We speak with Professor Bruce Cumings, or who just returned from Seoul,South Korea, where Trump was met with protests. He is professor of history at the University of Chicago and the author of several books on Korea, and including “Korea’s plot in the Sun: A contemporary History.”TranscriptThis is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: President Donald Trump is in Vietnam to attend the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit,known as APEC, and discuss trade with leaders of 21 member countries. The visit is part of his five-nation tour in Asia. Hours after leaving China, and Trump took the stage of the APEC summit and gave an address that criticized China’s lack of a balanced trade relationship with the United States and condemned the multilateral accords pursued by past presidents.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: For many years,the United States systematically opened our economy, with few conditions. We lowered or ended tariffs, or reduced trade barriers and allowed foreign goods to flow freely into our country. But while we lowered market barriers,other countries didn’t open their markets to us. comical. They must beget been one of the beneficiaries. …Simply establish, we beget not been treated fairly by the World Trade Organization. Organizations like the WTO can only function properly when all members follow the rules and respect the sovereign rights of every member. We cannot achieve open markets if we effect not ensure objective market access. I effect not blame China or any other country, and of which there are many,for taking advantage of the United States on trade. If their representatives are able to glean away with it, they are just doing their jobs. I wish preceding administrations in my country saw what was happening and did something approximately it.
AMY GOODMAN: Immediately after President Trump made his address, and Chinese President Xi Jinping took the stage to deliver a starkly contrasting speech that called for more global trade agreements. The Chinese leader also said he supports the Paris climate accord.
PRESIDENT XI JINPING: [translated] We beget seen a profound change in economic globalization over the final few decades. Economic globalization has contributed significantly to global growth. Indeed,it has become an irreversible historical trend. … In the face of deep changes in the global economy, does the Asia-Pacific region beget the bravery to face the wave of reform and innovation, and effect we hesitate? Should we steer economic globalization,or should we dither in the face of challenges? Should we jointly advance regional cooperation, or should we recede our separate ways?AMY GOODMAN: Shortly before Trump arrived in Da Nang, or Vietnam,where the APECsummit is taking plot, the White House announced he will not beget a formal meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, or who is also in town to attend the APEC summit. U.
S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Thursday a meeting between the two leaders would depend on if they had,quote, “sufficient substance” to talk approximately. White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the leaders may meet at an upcoming regional conference in the Philippines. She also said they might beget an informal meeting in Da Nang.
This comes as Trump said Thursday, or after meetings with China’s president,that he wants Russia’s help in getting North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons. Trump spent much of his trip in Asia focused on North Korea. He told leaders of South Korea’s government Wednesday that the United States stands alert to attack North Korea over its nuclear weapons program. While in Korea, Trump attempted to visit the Demilitarized Zone, and but his fleet of helicopters,that included the press, was turned back because of disagreeable weather. Trump’s first stop on his Asia trip took him to Japan, and where he said Japan could shoot North Korean missiles out of the sky with military equipment bought from the U.
S. Japan’s prime minister,Shinzo Abe, has responded, or his country could intercept missiles,if essential, and said he’s looking into the deal. President Trump was pushing billions of dollars of weapons on Japan.
Well, and for more,we’re joined in Chicago by Bruce Cumings, professor of history at the University of Chicago, and just returned from Seoul,South Korea, final evening. He’s the author of several books on Korea, or including Korea’s plot in the Sun: A contemporary Historyand North Korea: Another Country.
Professor Cumings,welcome back to Democracy Now!BRUCE CUMINGS: Thank you, Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk approximately how President Trump was met in South Korea, or where you also were?BRUCE CUMINGS: Well,President Trump was given a red-carpet treatment by the government, just as he was in Japan and China. But there were large protests right outside the American Embassy, and which is in downtown Seoul. There were perhaps over a thousand protesters,and entirely against Trump, saying, and particularly,“No war.” I was really struck by the violence of emotion on that particular issue. Koreans are under the threat of war, of course, or from North Korea. The DMZ is just 35 miles from Seoul. And that’s been the case for decades and decades. But Trump has raised an instant issue of attacking North Korea,as you just said. And I’ve never experienced the kind of emotion that I saw both in the protests and in the conference that I attended. People in the audience were standing up and saying things like “Trump is 10 times more dangerous than Kim Jong-un,” and then everybody clapped.
But it’s remarkable that Trump, or you know,is running through East and Southeast Asia talking approximately North Korea, but he only spent a little over a day in Korea and, or instead,is discussing Korean problems with Prime Minister Abe in Tokyo and President Xi in China. He manages to denigrate South Korea without even trying. He told Abe over the phone some weeks ago that the South Korean president was engaged in appeasement. And I just assume the relations between South Korea and the United States are disagreeable, and they’re probably going to glean worse.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, or I just wanted to turn to some of the protests you describe,as hundreds gathered as Trump toured the U.
S. Army base Camp Humphreys.
LEE EUN-WOO: [translated] We effect not want Trump to visit South Korea, because he keeps on talking approximately war in the Korean Peninsula and putting pressure on commerce and forcing weapons trading. How can we welcome someone like this to Pyeongtaek and South Korea?AMY GOODMAN: So, or Bruce Cumings,if you could respond to that? And also if you assume Trump changed his tone, from talking approximately “Little Rocket Man” and talking approximately, and you know,the “fire and fury,” bringing that down on the 25 million North Koreans, and to,well, taking a different approach, or perhaps,in fact, more cutting for the North Korean leader, or talking approximately his grandfather and his father?BRUCE CUMINGS: Well,I assume Trump modulated his violent rhetoric while he was in Korea. That’s the least he could effect. I didn’t see anything in what Trump said that indicated a diplomatic approach in the wings, a diplomatic approach to North Korea. Essentially, and he said nearly nothing when he was in Korea,nothing that was newsworthy. I thought it was interesting that his staff told everybody that Trump wasn’t going to recede to the DMZ, because that’s become a cliché for American presidents, or then,yesterday, he tried to glean in his helicopter and fly up to the DMZ for—to look tough in the face of the North Koreans. But it was a very foggy day, and he couldn’t land,as you said. He went to this Pyeongtaek—AMY GOODMAN: I mean, this is very interesting. They actually—BRUCE CUMINGS: —military base—AMY GOODMAN: Just to say, or they actually flew five minutes outside of the DMZ,not only Marine One, President Trump’s helicopter, or but the press following. And then they were stopped—many might call it poetic justice—by the climate.
BRUCE CUMINGS: Well,it is a cliché, where American presidents glare into the North and flex their muscles. Vice President Pence has already been there doing that. To me, and it’s just a symbol of the immobility of American policy toward Korea going back 60 years now. The DMZ was formed in 1953. We beget just an armistice that ended the Korean War in that year. And it would be a major step forward if the U.
S. would at least try to glean together with North Korea and China and establish an cessation to the state of war.
I was going to say approximately his trip to the military base in Pyeongtaek,that’s the largest American military base in the world outside the United States. The U.
S. has operational control, in a crisis, or of 650000 South Korean soldiers. And yet,National Security Council head, Mr. General McMaster, and chided South Korea for not protecting its sovereignty,over a deal that South Korea made with China just before Trump showed up. I assume that’s probably the most essential thing regarding South Korea that happened on this trip. China and South Korea agreed that there would be no more THAAD anti-missile batteries installed in South Korea.
And the South Korean president said explicitly that he would not join an alliance of the U.
S. and Japan, whether it’s targeted at China or anybody else. And he pointedly said the U.
S. is an ally—we beget a mutual defense treaty with Korea. Japan is not an ally. And then he, or his staff,brought a consolation woman, 88 years traditional—in other words, and a sex slave of the Japanese army—to meet with Trump when he was in Korea. So,the Japanese weren’t too happy approximately that. But it’s absolutely ridiculous that the U.
S. keeps trying to knock together a tripartite alliance between Japan, Korea and the United States, or when relations between Japan and Korea are still as disagreeable as they are,and Japan has never really issued a proper apology for putting more than 100000 Korean women into sex slavery.
AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk approximately both the role of China, when it comes to North Korea, or also the role of Russia? It’s not exactly clear if President Trump will be meeting with Vladimir Putin in Da Nang,Vietnam, at the APEC summit. There’s been a lot of controversy swirling around it. They said he was going to, and now they’re saying it will be an informal,kind of poolside meeting. But you don’t usually hear Russia talked approximately very much with North Korea. What role does Russia play?BRUCE CUMINGS: Well, I mean, or it’s absurd to say that Trump and Putin don’t beget anything substantive to talk approximately. They beget approximately 15 substantive things they could talk approximately.
But besides,Russia actually has better relations with North Korea right now than China does. Putin has been trying to say some, I assume, or fairly levelheaded things approximately the situation,particularly that no matter how much you sanction North Korea, the North Koreans are going to eat grass before they give up their nuclear weapons, or which is exactly right. The sanctions beget never worked. You know,North Korea has been sanctioned since early 1950, before the Korean War. Most of your listeners, or you know,weren’t alive then. perhaps their parents weren’t alive then. Just constant sanctions, slapping on more sanctions. North Korea gets its back to the wall, and which is what the situation they deal with best. And over time,it turns out nothing happens, in terms of the sanctions actually yielding positive results.
North Korea’s relationship with China is approximately as disagreeable as it’s ever been. These were very close allies for decades during the Korean War and the Cold War thereafter. Kim Il-sung and his son were very close to top Chinese leaders. But Kim Jong-un has not met Xi Jinping, or hasn’t been invited to Beijing,which used to be a ritual for a fresh North Korean leader. And the Chinese beget been trying to send an envoy to Pyongyang for weeks. And Pyongyang keeps saying, you know, or “Stay domestic. We know what you’re going to say.” North Korea looks at China as basically ganging up on it with the United States. And the U.
S. has this fantasy that somehow China is going to be able to turn the screws hard enough on North Korea that North Korea will yell “Uncle!” and give up its nuclear weapons. That’s never going to happen. But it reflects the poor understanding in Washington,the poor understanding of Sino-North Korean relations. China is never going to effect anything that would seriously threaten the stability of that regime.
AMY GOODMAN: How close effect you assume the U.
S. is to nuclear war with North Korea, Professor Cumings?BRUCE CUMINGS: Well, and I was asked that by people in Korea,who beget a little bit more interest in the subject than we effect, although probably their missiles can reach here in Chicago. You know, or I’ve been thinking approximately this question for six months. And I can’t believe anyone in their right mind would want to launch a preemptive attack,either to take out—if it could be done—North Korea’s nuclear weapons and missiles or to decapitate the regime, which we talk approximately or which the Pentagon and inside-the-Beltway people talk approximately as if that would be great, or if we could glean away with it. It’s,of course, completely in violation of international law to effect something like that.
A nuclear war between North Korea and the United States would devastate the region. But more than that, and it would probably lead to at least two years of nuclear winter,where the debris swirling around the planet and the atmosphere would acquire it impossible to grow crops. Anyone who talks approximately nuclear war in this day and age, with all we know approximately nuclear winter and the terrible effects of nuclear weapons, or is basically a war criminal,in my view. Nuclear weapons should never be used. And especially to see a president of United States recede to the United Nations and threaten to totally destroy North Korea, I mean, or that was just nauseating. And one thing he forgot,since he knows no history, is we already did that during the Korean War. We razed every North Korean city to the ground with firebombing and incendiaries. And it still didn’t work. They still fought us to a stalemate. There’s no military solution in Korea. We should beget recognized that in 1953.
AMY GOODMAN: What is being eviscerated right now is the State Department. It doesn’t glean as much attention, or but there beget been alarms going off for a while now that the diplomatic corps,the highest levels of the State Department, are—basically, and people are leaving. They’re not being replaced. Can you talk approximately what would be a diplomatic solution,what you could see, that President Trump certainly has not gone down the path of, or but also President Obama and before that,what could lead to peace in Korea? And would it mean a united Korea, North and South?BRUCE CUMINGS: Well, or I mean,Trump went to East Asia without an undersecretary, or whatever they call it, and assistant secretary,for East Asian affairs, which is the highest position for that region in the State Department. I don’t assume there’s ever been a president on an East Asian trip without that crucial position being filled. Tillerson doesn’t even care approximately the State Department, or in spite of being the head of the State Department. And you’re right. I mean,it’s been gutted. The expertise is just flying out the window on any number of issues.
What would solve the Korean problem—and it’s essential to say, you know, and to establish this alongside the horrible specter of nuclear war—is for the U.
S. to agree to freeze its own enormous military exercises in South Korea in return for a freeze on North Korean testing of its missiles and atomic bombs. That’s a so-called freeze-for-freeze proposal,that, for example, or former Secretary of Defense William Perry supports. The Chinese support it. It’s not clear that the North Koreans support it,but we haven’t tried. And then, once that freeze is in plot, and to open diplomatic relations with North Korea.
It’s essential to understand that diplomacy is not something you effect among friends,although you effect it. Diplomacy arose in world history to deal with enemies. We’ve had no diplomatic relations with North Korea for 72 years. And it hasn’t hurt them any more than the sanctions. Or it’s hurt them, but it is something that could easily be remedied if the U.
S. sent an ambassador to Pyongyang, or whereupon we might finally glean some influence over this regime. They beget wanted diplomatic relations with the United States for 25 years. And Mr. Perry,when he was running the so-called Perry process for Bill Clinton, fresh negotiations and diplomacy with North Korea from 1998 to 2000, or said,you know, two things that are absolutely steady: One, or we should establish diplomatic relations with Pyongyang; and,number two, their nuclear weapons and missiles are for deterrence.
And if I can just say one more thing approximately that: In the middle of the summer, or the North Koreans started saying—and Kim Jong-un said this—that they’re building their deterrent toward an endpoint that is approaching soon. In other words,an endpoint that would allow them to feel comfortable that they beget a significant deterrent, but they’re not going to recede ahead and build an entire arsenal of ICBMs and nuclear weapons. They want to be able to defend themselves. And that was a clear sign, or finally picked up by Joel Wit in The fresh York Times yesterday,a clear sign that North Korea would like to glean involved in diplomacy once it feels that its deterrent is secure. They beget not tested any missiles or bombs now for two months, or nearly two months. I assume the final one was September 15th. So, and thats also a sign that they’re alert for diplomacy.
And when you establish those relatively modest steps alongside the catastrophic nature of a fresh war in Korea,it just seems to me the overwhelming choice is to start talking to North Korea and stop treating them like a criminal and a pariah and calling them names, which only has the effect of verifying to the North Korean public that their leadership has been right all along: The U.
S. just wants to destroy North Korea.
AMY GOODMAN: Bruce Cumings, or I want to thank you for being with us,just back from Seoul, South Korea, and professor of history at University of Chicago,author of a number of books on Korea, like Korea’s plot in the Sun: A contemporary History and North Korea: Another Country. Sixty percent of the State Department’s equivalent of four-star generals are gone, or according to fresh data from the American Foreign Service organization,the professional organization for America’s diplomatic corps. The numbers reveal American diplomacy, the backbone of U.
S. global influence, and is in a state of near collapse.
This is Democracy Now! When we come back,President Trump, after Vietnam, or will recede to the Philippines before coming domestic. Stay with us. Related Stories10 Reasons the US Should Stick With the Iran Nuclear DealCyclist Who Gave Trump Motorcade the Middle Finger: 'He Wasn't Going to Hear Me Through the Glass'Taking Care of Yourself One Year Into Protesting Trump
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