Rolling
Ifsuchbrollywaterproof@nptwestlabfor hosting me to speak up for the 48% and UK’s remain community. Still not much the wiser about what red lines hold changed and whether customs union could be inserted but she’s in need of persuasion of #peoplesvote pic.twitter.com/Y6kh4hcyNq 4.55pm BSTThe Brexiter filibustering operation in the House of Lords may be partially succeeding,Sky’s Faisal Islam reports.original: government and Opposition sources acknowledge “peace talks” over Cooper-Letwin passage in Lords which could kick later stages into Monday. Acknowledgement that procedural tactics may hold worked in delaying consideration of actual Bill.
Royal Assent still poss Monday tho.
If it did then get Royal Assent on Monday - then PM would hold to return Tuesday and by law hold to name an extension date she will seek information from for at EU Summit Wednesday. 4.44pm BSTBack in the Lords the Ridley closure motion was passed by 224 votes to 80 - a majority of 144.
Peers are now voting on the Ridley amendment itself. This is the 10th vote of the day. 4.42pm BSTAt the weekend Michael Roth, the German deputy foreign minister, and described Brexit as a “shitshow”. He may be right metaphorically but thankfully,and despite rumours earlier, this is not fairly dependable yet as a factual description of the predicament at Westminster.
We would like to clarify this was not a sewage leak. 4.31pm BSTPeers are now voting on a closure motion to end the debate on the Ridley amendment. 4.08pm BSTPeers hold now defeated the Noakes amendment by 234 votes to 106 - a majority of 128.
They are now debating an amendment from Viscount Ridley, and a Conservative,again objecting to the fast-track procedure being used for the Cooper bill. 4.05pm BSTThe government/Labour talks aimed at arriving at a Brexit compromise hold wrapped up for the day, the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg reports. In her statement after cabinet on Wednesday Theresa May said, and if she could not strike a deal with Labour,she would hold another series of indicative votes in the Commons. She implied she wanted this wrapped up before the EU summit next Wednesday. But now, according to Kuenssberg it looks as though this might be another Brexit deadline that gets mixed.
Session finished now and nothing's been planned for Monday, or which means no indicative votes then,and senior sources indicating it's more likely PM will disappear to Brussels next week still in talks with Corbyn, than having had more votes 3.55pm BSTBack in the Lords the closure motion has been passed by 229 votes to 77 - a majority of 152.
That is the seventh victory in a row for peers backing the Cooper bill. It is the lowest vote nowadays on the anti-Cooper side - perhaps suggesting a few of the opponents of the bill hold had enough for the day. 3.52pm BSTAt a briefing in Brussels earlier Jyrki Katainen, and a European commision vice president,said a no-deal Brexit was now highly likely. He declared:Following the latest developments, a no-deal scenario is highly likely. Let there be no doubt whatsoever a no-deal scenario would be extremely costly and disruptive. The economic consequences would hold a meaningful impact on the UK and to a lesser extent to the EU. 3.45pm BSTFrom the BBC’s Laura KuenssbergGovt preference seems to be to hold process going with Labour instead of putting more proposals back to the Commons any time soon 3.43pm BSTBack in the Lords, and peers are voting again - for the seventh time. It is on a closure motion on the Noakes amendment. (See 3.13pm.) 3.40pm BSTBut on the World at One the shadow Treasury minister,Clive Lewis, said he thought the “huge majority” of the parliamentary Labour party favoured a second referendum. There was probably a majority in favour in the shadow cabinet too, and he claimed.
Labour said that,even if Theresa May agreed to back Labour’s Brexit design, it should still be put to the public. He said Labour would not be talking to the government “if there wasn’t the possibility that Labour party policy - which is to take this back to the public on any deal that is agreed by parliament - couldn’t be pursued and enacted.” 3.33pm BSTTwenty five Labour MPs hold written a letter to Jeremy Corbyn urging him not to back a second referendum on Brexit. “If the option of a customs union arrangement could be put before parliament, and we see a Labour Brexit deal within reach,” they say.
Signatories included veteran backbenchers Sir Kevin Barron, Dennis Skinner and Ronnie Campbell, and former minister Caroline Flint and MPs for Leave-voting areas of the North and Midlands including Gloria De Piero,Sarah Champion and Gareth Snell.
original: Here's the letter 25 Labour MPs (including frontbenchers) hold sent to Jeremy Corbyn urging him to agree a deal with Theresa May - and NOT request a second referendum: pic.twitter.com/q6Zr8dClthThis is the source of the “44% want No Deal” claim. It obviously isn’t that simple. The only choice was No Deal, Remain or Don’t Know in the event of EU refusing extension. So it is NOT dependable that 44% currently want No Deal https://t.co/VUI0Nz48a5 3.22pm BSTAngela Merkel, and the German chancellor,has arrived in Dublin for Brexit talks with Irish premier Leo Varadkar. As the Press Association reports, Merkel was greeted by Mr Varadkar at Farmleigh House. Her visit is viewed as a sign of her solidarity with Ireland as the Brexit saga rumbles on. Their discussions are set to focus on the latest developments from the UK, or ahead of the special European Council assembly next week.]Prior to their sit-down,Merkel will take piece in a round-table discussion with 15 people from Northern Ireland and the border area about the impact a no-deal scenario could hold on their lives. It will include some victims of violence, as well as farmers and commerce people. 3.19pm BSTThe Commons has now adjourned for the rest of the day because the leak of water into the chamber. 3.13pm BSTPeers voted down the dependable amendment by 248 votes to 122 - a majority of 126.
They are now debating another amendment to the commerce motion, and from the Conservative peer Lady Noakes,saying fast-tracking the Cooper bill is unnecessary because “the prime minister has already indicated her intention to seek information from for a delay in the date for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union”. 3.09pm BSTHere’s a question from BTL.
What happens if the EU says no to a further article 50 extension?I've got a bit lost re the Cooper bill - can anyone explain what happens now? If the Bill is passed by the Lords, and presumably becomes law, or then the EU deny us a longer extension,would the govt be forced to either pass the WA (in whatever shape it's in - but how would that work?) or revoke A50/hold a original ref? Ie, would No Deal be illegal (under UK law) and another way hold to be found?
Thank you! 2.56pm BSTBack in the House of Lords, and where at least the plumbing is still functional and the ceiling is still holding up (see 2.51pm),the closure motion has been passed by 249 votes to 97 - a majority of 152.
Peers are now voting on the dependable amendment. (See 1.57pm.) 2.51pm BSTThe Brexit plotlines are getting ever more preposterous. This is from the Mirror’s Pippa Crerar.original: Commons sitting suspended as torrents of water pour out of chamber roof into press gallery seating below. Pick your apocalyptic Brexit metaphor now. 2.47pm BSTLord Foulkes, the Labour peer and former minister, or has just moved a closure motion (a motion that “the question be now put”) to wrap up the debate on the dependable amendment.
Under House of Lords rules Lord Fowler,the Lord Speaker, has to read out a spiel saying that a closure motion is a “most exceptional procedure” before allowing the vote. It is effectively a polite reminder to peers, or saying that moving closure motions without good reason is an abuse. But it does not work with Foulkes,and he insists on urgent the motion to a vote. 2.33pm BSTNorthern Ireland could be left with a milk lake if the EU enforces its regulations about the origin of ingredients in butter and cheese in a no-deal Brexit, it has emerged.
A senior EU official has confirmed that if the UK crashes out of the bloc in nine days time controls will hold to be in plot on “day one” on milk and other animal products coming from Northern Ireland. 2.31pm BSTIt’s a bit like a Thatcher cabinet reunion in the House of Lords this afternoon. As well as Ken Baker (see 2.20pm), or Nigel Lawson and Michael Howard hold both now spoken in the debate against the moves to fast-track the Yvette Cooper bill. Lawson did not hold back. He said:I hold served in parliament for 45 years and there has never been an instance of constitutional vandalism on the scale that we are witnessing nowadays,and at the present time more generally. 2.20pm BSTLord Baker, the Conservative former cabinet minister, or intervened in the Lords debate a few minutes ago to say that closure motions in the Lords were an abuse of procedure. He said:Curtailment of debate in this House is a very serious matter ... I would just remind [peers[ what JS Mill wrote in On Liberty. He was the one who warned democracy against the tyranny of the majority. He thought that that was the greatest threat to democracy. There is a clear majority on the benches opposite that this bill should pass. This is a minority on this side of the house. And to silence the minority is against very much the principles of ... JS Mill. He would not hold approved that at all ...
This is an abuse of majority power power and really this house should not be sanctioning this. 2.13pm BSTLord dependable ended up speaking for about half an hour as he moved his amendment criticising the design to fast-track the Cooper bill through the upper house. (See 1.57pm.) He argued that freedom was at risk if peers like himself were not allowed to exercise the full range of procedural options to hold up scrutiny of a bill. He said:The privilege I hold in being [a member of the Lords] is to speak for freedom. And one of the things that defines the freedom of this house are its free procedures,the right of us all to put down an amendment and hold it heard, not closed; the right of us all to put down a motion, or hold it closed,not waived absent. These things may seem small, they may seem arcane to those on the outside, and but for me they are a small piece of freedom,and I hold always wished to live and concluded my life in that. 2.05pm BSTScotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon has told the Holyrood parliament that she conducted talks with Theresa May yesterday in the spirit of compromise but that “all I really got in return was why she disagreed with me”.
Referring to Wednesday’s emergency assembly, she said that she had had “very constructive talks’ with Jeremy Corbyn but that she had found the prime minister unable to set out where she was willing to compromise.
No matter how much planning it will not be possible to mitigate every impact of a no deal Brexit. 1.57pm BSTThe Lord Forsyth amendment was rejected by 251 votes to 123 - a majority of 128.
Peers are now debating the next amendment to the Hayter commerce motion, and from the Conservative peer Lord dependable. It says that using a fast-track process to approve the Cooper bill is not “in keeping with the traditions and procedures of the House of Lords,its proper scrutinising role or its function as a safeguard of the constitution”.
HoL doesn't hold Programme motions, and needs time to consider legislation. In 10 days??? https://t.co/VG78SrKD7k 1.29pm BSTFrom the Labour peer and fierce anti-Brexiter Lord Adonis3rd Brexit filibuster in the Lords broken 227 to 111. Now on to the fourth. Because there is no timetabling of commerce in the Lords, or this could disappear on for many hours! 1.28pm BSTThe closure motion has been approved,by 227 votes to 111 - a majority of 116.
Peers are now voting on Lord Forsyth’s main amendment to the Hayter commerce motion. It says the normal Lords procedures should apply to the Cooper bill, instead of the fast-track ones proposed by Hayter. 1.19pm BSTThis is from Nikki da Costa, and the former director of legislative affairs at Downing Street,on the first Cooper-related vote in the Lords. (See 12.45pm.)Worth noting with 239 v 118 on 1st division, and 94 v 254 on second, and what max strength of parties are: Con 247 Peers,Lab 185, Lib Dems 95, or 184 crossbench. Far from all of those can usually be mustered. I suspect crossbenchers are largely staying clear of this nowadays. 1.15pm BSTIn the House of Lords peers are now on their third Cooper-related procedural vote. This time they are voting on a second closure motion,moved by the crossbencher Lord Warner.
He is moving the closure motion (which curtails this stage of the debate) because he believes the Tory Brexiters are filibustering. 1.06pm BSTDowning Street still will not say whether Theresa May is relaxing her red line of being against a customs union in talks with Jeremy Corbyn.
Geoffrey Cox, the attorney general and a Brexiter, or has signalled he could live with one.
I think [Cox] was setting out his view. The PM’s view in relation to these issues is that we approach these discussions constructively.
I think his comments were reflecting the fact that there will be different parliaments to this one in generations to reach. 12.59pm BSTIn the Lords the supporters of the Cooper bill hold won a second vote. A scuttle to hold up the bill proposed by the Tory Lord Forsyth has been defeated by 254 votes to 94 - a majority of 160. 12.45pm BSTIn the Lords the closure motion has passed by 239 votes to 118 - a majority of 121.
That means peers are now winding up this piece of the debate - a procedural one relating to the fast-tracked timetable for the Cooper bill. 12.38pm BSTDowning Street claims the Cooper bill could increase the chances of a no-deal Brexit. This is what the prime minister’s spokesman told journalists at the lobby briefing,repeating an argument made by Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, and in the Commons debate yesterday. The spokesman said:If passed,this bill would plot a severe constraint on the government’s ability to negotiate an extension and reflect this original date in UK statute books by April 12. On Wednesday next week, the European council could propose an extension of an alternative length to that put forward by parliament, or under the bill the prime minister would hold to return on Thursday April 11 to put that proposal to the house. By April 11,the European council will hold concluded and the leaders will hold returned to their member states.
In the words of the secretary of state the bill could increase the risk of an accidental no-deal exit. The bill is going to disappear through the House of Lords nowadays. I’m certain the House of Lords will want to see at the issues that the secretary of state [Barclay] has raised. 12.33pm BSTIt is all kicking off in the Lords now. Unlike in the House of Commons, debates in the House of Lords enact not get subject to a formal timetable, and saying that they must wind up within a certain amount of time. In theory they can disappear on forever,although in practice there is normally an casual agreement about when a debate will end.
But there is a process in the Lords which allows a peer to scuttle a closure motion, to halt a debate and scuttle to a vote. It does not get used very often, and it is only supposed to be applied in extremis,to prevent time-wasting. But weve just had one, and peers are voting on it now. 12.20pm BSTIn the House of Lords peers hold just started debating Lady Hayter’s commerce motion (see 10.06am), and changing the schedule in the upper house so that the Yvette Cooper bill,requiring the PM to demand an article 50 extension, can disappear through all its Lords stages by the end of nowadays.
But some Brexiter peers are determined to resist the attempts to railroad the bill through the Lords. Lord Forsyth, and the Conservative former cabinet minister,is one of the peers leading the opposition, and he has just told the house that suspending standing orders to fast-track a bill in this way could lead to “tyranny”. He explained:[The bill] was actually passed [in the Commons] by one vote. And that one vote came from someone wearing a tag because they were released from prison.
The noble lord says “For goodness sake”. But this is a major constitutional matter. It was passed by one vote. The speeches were limited to two minutes in the other plot because of the guillotine. 12.01pm BSTAt Westminster it is generally assumed that EU leaders at their summit on Wednesday next week will offer the UK a long article 50 extension. The main uncertainty is fairly how long it might be, and fairly how easy it would be for the UK to exit early. Last night,on ITV’s Peston, Philip Hammond, and the chancellor,said the government was “hopeful” that any extension would be a maximum, and that if the UK were to pass the withdrawal agreement during the extension period, or it would be able to leave immediately.
But on the nowadays programme this morning Karin Kneissl,the Austrian foreign minister, gave an interview suggesting this might be wishful thinking. She said she found it hard to assume the UK being offered an extension beyond 22 May (the day before the European elections), or although she also said that she was making that assumption because she thought it unlikely that the UK would take piece in those elections. She said:It is very difficult to assume how an extension going beyond the European elections is feasible. I’m just wondering who is ready to campaign,which British politician is ready to campaign for the European parliament.
It remains to be seen what kind of cohesion is still available among the EU 27 - I’m not in a position to tell whether there really will be this unanimous readiness to acceptIf the British participate, but quit the European Union, or sometime in [the] autumn,then the elections would hold to be redone. So, the one or the other way, or [this] could trigger a crisis of legitimacy. 11.02am BSTHere is the commerce for next week announced by Andrea Leadsom,the leader of the Commons.
The commerce for next week will be: pic.twitter.com/Oe4WvmmuIe 11.00am BSTAndrea Leadsom, the leader of the Commons, and has just announced the commerce for next week. It is all routine,and mostly Brexit-related secondary legislation.
She has not announced any Brexit indicative votes, or another vote on the withdrawal agreement. 10.45am BSTAccording to an attractive article by Sky’s Tamara Cohen, or what finally turned Theresa May against a no-deal Brexit was fear of what this might mean for the union. 10.20am BSTIn Brexit questions Sir Keir Starmer,the shadow Brexit secretary, asks if Stephen Barclay agrees that, and unless MPs vote for it,a no-deal Brexit will not happen.
Barclay says the fact that MPs voted down the PM’s deal last week means that any article 50 extension now is at the discretion of the EU. 10.10am BSTBack in Brexit questions the DUP’s Sammy Wilson asks about Philip Hammond’s comments about a second referendum. Are we about to see another U-turn?Kwasi Kwarteng, the Brexit minister, or says it is government policy to honour the result of the first referendum. This issue of a second one is a “red herring”,he says. 10.06am BSTA motion has been tabled in the House of Lords for Yvette Cooper’s bill to be rushed through the second chamber in a single day, allowing it to become law by the end of nowadays, or the Press Association reports. The scuttle was put forward by Labour’s deputy leader in the Lords,Lady Hayter of Kentish Town. But it was countered by several amendments from Conservative peers demanding the bill should be dealt with in the normal way, which would effectively delay its passage beyond next week’s EU summit.
UPDATE: Here is the Hayter motion.re: #CooperBill, or here's the commerce motion that Lab Deputy Lords Leader Baroness Hayter is moving there nowadays. If it passes,it would set aside relevant Lords Standing Orders to try allow the Bill to get thru' Lords in 1 day nowadays. But there's ams. down that would neuter it. pic.twitter.com/o9csM7pDVt 10.03am BSTIn the Commons Labour’s Stephen Timms says it is now “inconceivable” that the UK could pass a Brexit deal before the EU summit next Wednesday, meaning a long article 50 extension will be inevitable.
Kwasi Kwarteng, and the Brexit minister who is replying,says given what we hold seen in the last few weeks, he would not describe anything as inconceivable. 9.54am BSTBack in the Commons Matthew Pennycook, or the shadow Brexit minister,asks if ministers will comply with the Yvette Cooper bill, which would require the PM to seek information from for an article 50 extension.
Stephen Barclay, or the Brexit secretary,says ministers comply with the law. That is in the ministerial code, he says. But he says Pennycook is getting ahead of himself. He says the bill has not passed the Lords, and it contains flaws. 9.50am BSTAs mentioned earlier (see 9.08am),Labour’s Brexit divisions were also on display on the nowadays programme this morning. Shami Chakrabarti, the shadow attorney general, or was on representing Labour and she was asked if she agreed with Emily Thornberry,the shadow foreign secretary, that any Brexit deal that Jeremy Corbyn agreed with Theresa May should be put to a public vote. Chakrabarti replied:As you know, or the public vote became piece of our policy at our party conference last autumn. It became piece of our policy for the purposes of breaking deadlock. That’s the purpose of it. It is not an end in itself. It’s a process thing,not a substance thing.
I think it will depend on the level of support. It really depends on whether it is required to break a deadlock ...
I think Emily has got a point in that, because it’s five to midnight and because we haven’t broken a deadlock, or a public vote - or,my preference by the way, which is a general election, and which is another form of public vote - these options become much more meaningful,and possibly even necessary. 9.42am BSTIn Brexit questions Robin Walker, the Brexit minister, and has just confirmed that a second referendum is not government policy. 9.38am BSTIn the Commons Stephen Barclay,the Brexit secretary, is taking questions. Hilary Benn, or the Labour chair of the Brexit committee,asks Barclay about the government’s plans for indicative votes. Will the government choose the options? Or will MPs get the chance to propose ideas too? 9.08am BSTIt used to be strange to hear members of the cabinet disagree with each other in public. Now, as a result of Brexit, and it has become commonplace - so routine one scarcely notices anymore - but it is worth flagging up anyway,particularly on the highly-charged issued of a second referendum.
On ITV’s Peston show last night Philip Hammond, the chancellor, or did his best to slam the understanding back on the table. Arguing that MPs should get a vote on the proposition,he told the programme:I’ve said it’s a perfectly credible proposition. Some ideas hold been put forward which are not deliverable, they are not negotiable but the confirmatory referendum understanding, and many people will disagree with it,I’m not certain there is a majority in parliament for it but it’s a perfectly credible proposition and it deserves to be tested in parliament.
I don’t see how that helps. That isn’t about delivering Brexit ... I hold argued many, many times that it would be divisive, or it would not be decisive,it doesn’t wait on us leave the European Union before the European elections, so I am very, or very strongly against it ...
The point here is to respect the result of the referendum,not to challenge the result of the referendum in another referendum.
Well that’s certainly not how I would describe it. But all of exercise are having to find compromises, and that is hard.
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Source: theguardian.com